The New Kemper Kone

  • If I remember correctly from last year, the kone algorithm will work ok with a frfr speaker. If I understand correctly, the kpa cab/speaker is relatively flat, but of course idealized to pair well with the kone settings. Maybe this gives the ability to get a more amp in the room sound when using an frfr?

  • Digbob. the speaker is not that f12 x200 it is the K12H-200TC. the only difference seems to be that the kemper one is 4 ohm and this speaker is 8 OHM.

    i know its not the f12 ,listen to the video i mentioned, there ck says that Celestion released a 2 two way speaker , which is the f 12, which has the the same frequency response as the Kone

  • Probably not on most people's minds but, I wonder how it will sound with "Backing Tracks and Vocals" through it in addition to the imprints as it was mentioned you could feed the Aux with your tracks and they would be Full Range etc. (I do this today). For smaller gigs I use a Mackie Freeplay instead of a Bose L1 Model 2. I've been wanting stereo though and thought that the Kone or the Celestion might work OK. It would be a simple setup with an iPad an iConnectivity interface a mic, the Kemper and 2 EV slant cabinets with these speakers in it in stereo. I could use the L1 in addition for larger gigs to add coverage. Your thoughts? I would think it would be at least as good as the Freeplay.

  • Probably not on most people's minds but, I wonder how it will sound with "Backing Tracks and Vocals" through it in addition to the imprints as it was mentioned you could feed the Aux with your tracks and they would be Full Range etc. (I do this today). For smaller gigs I use a Mackie Freeplay instead of a Bose L1 Model 2. I've been wanting stereo though and thought that the Kone or the Celestion might work OK. It would be a simple setup with an iPad an iConnectivity interface a mic, the Kemper and 2 EV slant cabinets with these speakers in it in stereo. I could use the L1 in addition for larger gigs to add coverage. Your thoughts? I would think it would be at least as good as the Freeplay.

    My understanding is the backing can come through full response while the guitar is effected by the Kone.

  • Deadpan, that's what I understand too. It was stated on the Kemper home page NAMM posting, but I think they removed that statement for some reason. I think I'm asking questions that we do not yet know: "In contrast to the conventional idea of a full-range system, the radiation pattern of the KEMPER Kone has been narrowed towards the physics of a classic guitar speaker chassis, so that even the full range sound carries a distinct guitar speaker character, unlike regular PA speakers or monitor speakers". This guitar speaker character may or may not make normal music playback sound good, that's what I'd like to know before buying. The Celestion F12-X200 has a freq response of 60Hz–20kHz. Does anyone know how that sounds with music playing through it? Maybe that is a better choice. I'm fine with the sound of the Kemper now through PA speakers, I'm just looking for the simplest stereo solution for small gigs with backing tracks without having to buy 2 Bose S1 Pro's for $1200, and without the need for monitors.

  • Probably not on most people's minds but, I wonder how it will sound with "Backing Tracks and Vocals" through it in addition to the imprints as it was mentioned you could feed the Aux with your tracks and they would be Full Range etc. (I do this today). For smaller gigs I use a Mackie Freeplay instead of a Bose L1 Model 2. I've been wanting stereo though and thought that the Kone or the Celestion might work OK. It would be a simple setup with an iPad an iConnectivity interface a mic, the Kemper and 2 EV slant cabinets with these speakers in it in stereo. I could use the L1 in addition for larger gigs to add coverage. Your thoughts? I would think it would be at least as good as the Freeplay.

    I use a backing track/intro but I don;t put it through the cab, only FOH.


    Why would you put it through the cab ?

  • V8guitar: Thanks for asking. I rarely play larger gigs. I would put the tracks and vocals, along with the KPA guitar sound through the cabs in stereo so that I don't have to bring a lot of equipment. I play solo gigs in Florida and then more back home in the summer. "Think, the solo guy you listen to while drinking Margaritas at a Tiki bar". Everything goes through one of my PA's. I don't use monitors as they aren't needed in a simple solo set-up. The key is quick set-up and less to carry. I sometimes do 2-3, 3-hr gigs a day and simplicity is key. I normally use a Bose L1 Model 2, which is more than loud enough for these gigs. I've also used a Mackie Freeplay (original one) and it works fine for most gigs too. I still have both of those, but want to go stereo because in my studio, I rehearse through studio monitors (backing tracks, vocals and Kemper in stereo) and it sounds so much better than live, mainly the Kemper effects. JBL is coming out with IRX 12's, then there are the Bose S1 Pro's, etc.. The JBL IRX's at $379 ea. may be the way to go, I just thought it would be a cool simple set-up to have everything going through two cabinets in stereo fitted with the Kone's . . . . if it sounded decent enough. That way I could use the speaker Imprints too.

  • V8guitar: Thanks for asking. I rarely play larger gigs. I would put the tracks and vocals, along with the KPA guitar sound through the cabs in stereo so that I don't have to bring a lot of equipment. I play solo gigs in Florida and then more back home in the summer. "Think, the solo guy you listen to while drinking Margaritas at a Tiki bar". Everything goes through one of my PA's. I don't use monitors as they aren't needed in a simple solo set-up. The key is quick set-up and less to carry. I sometimes do 2-3, 3-hr gigs a day and simplicity is key. I normally use a Bose L1 Model 2, which is more than loud enough for these gigs. I've also used a Mackie Freeplay (original one) and it works fine for most gigs too. I still have both of those, but want to go stereo because in my studio, I rehearse through studio monitors (backing tracks, vocals and Kemper in stereo) and it sounds so much better than live, mainly the Kemper effects. JBL is coming out with IRX 12's, then there are the Bose S1 Pro's, etc.. The JBL IRX's at $379 ea. may be the way to go, I just thought it would be a cool simple set-up to have everything going through two cabinets in stereo fitted with the Kone's . . . . if it sounded decent enough. That way I could use the speaker Imprints too.

    Pure speculation on my part of course, but it seems to me that if you need guitar + backing + vox that a traditional full range speaker would be a good fit. I get the impression that the whole point of the Kone is to tailor it to guitar.


    If I was doing a single I'd use the DXR-10. If it was a band gig and purely for on stage guitar monitoring, the Kone might be a better fit. In that scenario I would assume a separate wedge / ears for vocal monitors. I wouldn't run my vox monitors through a Marshall 4x12, and it seems like you'd think of the Kone in the same way.

  • I believe the only purpose of the Kone is to get the player a more classic "amp in the room" impression/feeling of the sound. A lot of people complaining about this (not only Kemper players, same goes for Fractal, Line 6 and all others) so I think its a very clever step for a company to adress this issue because for those players it can be a unique selling point.


    I believe that because as far as my understanding goes at this point, there is no way to put that sound from the Kone to a FOH or InEar system so only the player himself benfits from it when listening directly to the Kone. And also Kemper mentions things like the radiation patterns, so i think they found out, that part of the problem (or even most of the problem) of the different feeling of FRFR compared to "amp in the house" is that different behaviour of FRFR cabinets compared to guitar speakers. So basically they made a FRFR capable speaker that apart from the frequency response behaves like a typical guitar speaker.


    The IRs/Cab profiles is just on top of it i think. Even IRs will sound different on different speakers so I believe that cab profiles are more or less IRs that are highly optimized for the Kone.


    Please be aware that this is all speculation on my side.

  • What you get from current FRFR solutions is the sound of a mic'd cabinet. IRs always include the response from the microphone along with the speaker. A speaker with a SM57 alone will sound different than one mic'd with a 57 and a ribbon mic, which will sound different if you add a room mic. They're all the same speaker, but you will get *wildly* different results.

    The Kone is meant to give you the sound of *just* the speaker in a cabinet. The same as you would with a regular amp and speaker.

    To me, the Kone makes direct profiles more valuable. You can remove the cabinet from a merged profile and it'll work great. But having an amp-only profile coupled with the Kone? That should be epic.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • I indeed also thought that the magic would be in hearing the sound without the mic component that you here in most cases. So same as using a DI profile with a regular cab. With the kone you use a flat speaker to get the flavour of each speaker you choose V30 etc ...


    If that's the case : pure magic again from M. Kemper and his team !


    Raf

  • People who sell commercial profiles will probably try putting regular Guitar speakers into a Kone cabinet when they make merged profiles - with the real amp EQed for that specific amp/cab combination, they could end up with some nice sounding profiles.

    Why not make direct amp profiles specifically designed to be used with a Kemper Kabinet? Just select the imprint you want with the DAP.


    I plan on using the DAPs I've made of my amps with the Kabinet.


    BTW, I saw an interview a while back where Michael Britt said he didn't want to make direct amp profiles because they sounded different with different user cabs. Since there is now going to be a Kabinet that if successful will become fairly ubiquitous with Kemper owners, that issue is no longer valid.


    The seller could even suggest the specific imprint or imprints for use with each specific DAP he sells.

  • scratch17:


    I did a search on the forum and you are the only one referring to a DAP. What is it?


    Direct Profile (no cabinet)?


    Rich



    Why not make direct amp profiles specifically designed to be used with a Kemper Kabinet? Just select the imprint you want with the DAP.


    I plan on using the DAPs I've made of my amps with the Kabinet.

  • Direct Amp Profile. A profile made with a DI box between the power amp and the cabinet to capture the interaction between the two. You can then merge this profile with a Studio Profile to make (yes, you guessed it!) a Merged Profile. A happy side effect of this process is the accurate separation of the Cab portion of the profile, which can then be added to other DA Profiles without the KPA having to ‘guess’ where the amp ends and the cabinet begins, as per the Cab Driver algorithm. Hope that helps! :)