Kemper last chance , any recommandations for direct profile + ir (marshalesque)

  • Hi there,


    Been touring almost all day of summer with the kemper.
    And I’m not really happy with it…


    I use M Britt 69 profiles, that I’ve found are the best for live use, they do the job for foh (our foh is a big one like 15kw or something with a really great sound engineer), no problem they do the job, just like any other unit in fact.


    But It’s not been a blast playing it at all.


    There’s something strange with the attack that really doesn’t react like an amp, like an over exaggerated behavior despite an also exaggerated compression in the mids that seems to happen with every rig I played (and I played and bought a lot, really a lot).


    I started to think it was my main guitar so I tested it with a simple H&K tubeman II preamp (which is my backup rig) into a two notes torpedo live and boom everything sounded like it should do, much easier to play and amp like feel it should, no problem with attack or compression. Clean, crunch or mid/high gain tones.


    So I’m started to think that even if I really wanted really strong the kemper to be full satisfaction for me it’s not…


    So, before selling it I want to try the direct profile + Ir way, cause I really love the form factor of the stage (easy to use live).

    Who here use it that way going direct to foh?


    Do you have any good direct profiles and irs that work well?
    I’m a Marshall guy but I don’t care about names, I just need clean - breakup - crunch - mid/high gain - lead that can cover every major styles (not metal).


    If some here can tell what are they « tour-approved » direct profile + ir rigs I would be very happy, cause I know that’s a real deep rabbit hole ^^.


    Thanks for reading.

  • Kemper does clean and crunch exceptionally well. I don't see how anyone can't be totally thrilled with those sounds. The only difficulties is tweaking high gain profiles to fit and I always have to add a EQ in those. I have tried IR's before with plugins and the Helix, and you really get quickly lost trying to tame those sounds.


    You really have only two other alternatives to the Kemper; go back to a regular amp and mic to FOH (which is really boring and limited), or splurge on a Fractal (which I've only heard and not played). I wouldn't mind getting a Fractal myself but it would have to be an addition to my gear and not a swap.

    The more you find what Kemper can do then the harder you try to find what it cannot do -- like make a good cup of Frappuccino.

  • Joshua, it sounds like the Kemper just isn’t for you. We all have different tastes and different needs. some people love Marshalls some hate them and love Fenders doesn’t make either opinion wrong or less valid than the others.


    For me, the Kemper is easily the most amp like experience I have ever had from a non tube platform. I don’t notice any strange attack or weird compression. It responds to the volume knob on my guitar exactly like my tube amps. I made some profiles of my little Mesa Mark V:25 the other night and was A/B testing them with the real thing. I lost track of which was which. Then when I did finally decide that I liked one a little better and played it for a long while, it turned out to be the profile not the real amp that I liked best. The reason seems to be that the profile doesn’t have the background noise from the real thing.


    I’m not in anyway saying your experience isn’t true or that your opinion is less valid than mine, simply that when something isn’t inspiring you like it should, it might be better to use something else rather than fight with the Kemper. It doesn’t matter what you use, only that it sounds great and inspires you to make great music.

  • Well, I have to admit, that I can understand the OPs intense. I really love my KPA and I definitely won´t change out that unit at all. But to my taste: when it comes to Marshall, I have not found one single rig that really does what my real (boosted) JMP 2204 does. To me, that specific Marshall-"emphasis" in the mids is missing. It works well for very "vintage" and very "modern" tones but not exactly how I hear Marshalls ;)


    My almost 100%-solution is one of the Britt Models through a different Cab from another rig. That does the job for me, but there are still 2% missing ;)


    When it comes to Britt profiles: I don´t like them when played alone or at lower volume. But like real amps: the work fine in the mix!

  • To me, that specific Marshall-"emphasis" in the mids is missing. It works well for very "vintage" and very "modern" tones but not exactly how I hear Marshalls ;)

    This to me is the missing ingredient. There is this thick mid push in a Marshall that I only seem to hear in a tube amp. But maybe that is because you can only play a Marshall thru a 4x12 cab at volume. You don't try to play your Marshall head thru some little speaker or headphones.


    I would like to tweak some tones up for Joshua, so I would like to hear exactly what he is looking for. I like tweaking and I like a good challenge 8)


    I know sometimes with profiles there is a weird THONK emphasis in the picking attack. I have also seen profiles where a mysterious resonant high freq exists making picking attack sound very harsh. In both cases, I think this is in the AMP section of the profile and it cant be removed by an IR/Cab. Would be best to move to a different profile. And then maybe add an EQ before the amp section for mid push and attack adjustment.

    It doesn’t matter what you use, only that it sounds great and inspires you to make great music.

    This is the key right here. A certain guitar style and color makes me WANT to play it. And when I write songs, it is all about tone. With a good sound, I can write songs all day long. With a bad one, I cant write any songs.


    And as V8 said, I just changed out my monitoring solution. To my dismay it sounds much better. Even though both were fairly clean transparent amplifiers.

  • I found this amp in the Kemper Merged profiles: TH - Mars VM OD1


    I made some custom IRs for it to get a few options. It probably has more gain than Joshua may want so I dropped the gain on two profiles (LG). The F variant sounds good on my Les Paul(HB) and the G2 variant sounds good on my Strat(SC). Of course my hearing is crap so YMMV :S

    TH - Mars VM OD1 SF25.zip

  • But maybe that is because you can only play a Marshall thru a 4x12 cab at volume. You don't try to play your Marshall head thru some little speaker or headphones.


    This is the key.


    Ironically, I absolutely hated Marshalls until I got the Kemper. Now many of my go to rigs are Marshall’s. Why is that? Because when I played real Marshalls (usually in rehearsal studios) I was never able to really crank them enough to get them singing. When played at low volume they sound terrible. With the Kemper I was able to get a profile of the amp in its sweet spot then turn it down to an appropriate volume without losing the sound of a raging stack like I did when turning down the real thing.

  • Hi to all,


    sorry I’ve been very busy and the kemper is back home so I can make some samples for to you hear what I’m talking about :)


    All I can say is that it’s not a monitoring problem, on monitors or in ears it’s the same problem for me.
    And i also think that the point of the kemper is to have miced amps without the amps so plugging it into a power amp and a 4x12 makes no sense to me.

    RosboneMako

    Thanks a lot really for trying to help me, gonna try this rig tomorrow morning and get back to you!

  • Can you profile the H&K tubeman II preamp that you do like? If that profile still worked for you, then you probably just aren't finding rigs that respond as you like.


    For me, it's mostly in finding cabs that I like from other rigs. As I find ones that I particularly like, I find that I can then use them in just about any rig, even those that I normally didn't like at all. Real easy to try out. Find something close to what you want. Lock the speaker and go through other rigs to see if they seem improved.

  • Can you profile the H&K tubeman II preamp that you do like? If that profile still worked for you, then you probably just aren't finding rigs that respond as you like.


    For me, it's mostly in finding cabs that I like from other rigs. As I find ones that I particularly like, I find that I can then use them in just about any rig, even those that I normally didn't like at all. Real easy to try out. Find something close to what you want. Lock the speaker and go through other rigs to see if they seem improved.

    I tried one time but didn’t manage to do it. Was getting an oversatured profile, didn’t have much time so I stopped lol. But gonna take the time to do it again.


    I’m gonna try to swap cabs!

  • Don't know if this would be to your taste, but maybe something you can try. Here's a Cab I like and a Rig of a H&K Tubeman ch3.


    In Rig Exchange find the rig Laney LH50 Pedal Jensen by Markus Hagen and load it. Cab should be a Grossman SG-Box with a Jensen Neo 1X12.

    Save the cabinet as a preset or Lock it in Rig Manager.


    Still in Rig Exchange, search for #Tubeman Ch3 by Heinen.


    There should at least be a noticeable difference between the default cab of #Tubeman and using the Markus Hagen cab. If these aren't anything like what you're looking for, try the same with other Rigs/cabinets.


    Hope that helps.

  • Thanks a lot really for trying to help me, gonna try this rig tomorrow morning and get back to you!

    Wanted to give you a different amp model than you are using. I have a few more options, but I dont want to send you down a rabbit hole of 50 terrible sounding profiles.


    MARSHALL SOUNDS???

    Recently, I have really wondered about what makes a Marshall sound like one. Especially in the room. And I am starting to think it is compression. Low frequencies require more power than highs. So a Marshall may compresses the lows but not compress the highs. This would make pick attack come thru and then high freqs die off and resolve to a lower freq since it is being pushed by compression. So it seems like a combination of compression and Sag is the key.


    I do not know if the Kemper can fully do this? The closest modeller I have ever heard do it is my Peavey Vypyr 30.


    One option would be to use a stomp to get the highs feeling right, and then use the amp to get the lows. Then tweak the DIRECT MIX to balance the two. Would be much easier if the Kemper had parallel paths ;)


    This would also explain why a tube amp sounds more dynamic to my ears than a modeler/profiler. The harder you play the louder the highs will come out since they are not using enough power to be into compression.

  • All I can say is that it’s not a monitoring problem, on monitors or in ears it’s the same problem for me.

    But I thought you said FOH was OK? If it is, then I think monitoring is the problem. Studio monitors and in ears to me aren't great/representative sound that you get out of a cab/Kab.


    This may sound crazy but.....Marshalls like any other amp sound so different under different conditions. What I mean is, a miked marshall through a PA sounds very different to the amp in the room sound. We generally only know the amp in the room sound and therefore it will not sound as you expect through in ears or studio monitors to the amp in the room sound. Hence why when you said it sounds fine FOH I assumed monitor is the problem.


    It is also about finding the right profile so sounds like you might be making progress.


    Hope you do get it sorted.

  • Check out the Katzenbach Marshall profiles, they are not expensive and sound GREAT IMO. Their site has a handful of freebies to try as well.


    Also - I may have missed it but not sure if you are having issues with the monitoring path (i.e., going to a local guitar cab) or the PA path (out to the house). I've found that the PA part takes some tweaking of the XLR output level to really optimize the overall sound - when I first started playing thru the PA with Kemper, I didn't think it felt right; after playing with levels over time, it made a very big and positive difference IMO.


    I play through a crappy open back 1x12, hardly a 4x12 (I do use a 1936 2x12 occasionally) - but it sounds absolutely great - my Marshall preferences lean in the Jimmy Page to EVH territory - it does that extremely well IMO. If you listened to a real amp and Kemper side by side in the house, you would never know the difference. Through the guitar cab, I also think it sounds great, but it did take a little tweaking to get there. Hope you find what you're looking for!

  • Joshua, it sounds like the Kemper just isn’t for you. We all have different tastes and different needs. some people love Marshalls some hate them and love Fenders doesn’t make either opinion wrong or less valid than the others.

    Unfortunately, i think so....

    I imagine you've tried it alone on different speakers....


    I remember the first time i plugged the Kemper in my DBR10 after having a Helix for two years, it was immediatly WHAOU :love: just trying some factory rigs.... The other guitarist in my band has just bought a Helix LT and he came at home, i show him how it works and how to programm it.

    Then, i could try it on my own monitors and there's no question, for me, to go back ! :P;)