" Liquid Profile Pack " Sellers ... why are they doing this ..... is it just for more $$ (?)

    Hi all !


    This is a strange thing I'm starting to see.


    I now have a KPA Stage and am well aware of what LP's are ... how they work and how they "should" be done - been messing with the ones in the 3 Official packs and a handful of free LP's from TJ ... they all work great !


    In my opinion, the "ideal" way to do a LP is one of two ways:-


    => set Gain to Full and EQ;s to 12.00 and do a Studio Profile and a Direct/Merged Profile -and/or-

    => set Gain to Full and EQ's to FULL and do a Studio Profile and a Direct/Merged Profile


    [ and if at all possible -don't- use a Load Box ... but rather Tap a DI off a connected speaker to keep a genuine-real-speaker impedance load on the Amp ]


    So ... i.m.h.o .... I cant see any technical reason to have more than 4 x LP's to cover your bases for a given Amp channel to ensure you get its full range as authentically as possible.


    So ..... why are some sellers starting to release LP Packs with 20, 30, 50, 70+ LP's at different "sweet spot" settings.


    Sure, if you are using different mics and different Cabs then you will need to cover those ... but other than that, its just pointless.


    My thoughts ?


    I think sellers are worried / scared that people won't pay $10 <-> $30 for a pack of just 4 or so LP's so they are "padding up" their packs to make them seem "packed with value" to give buyers the "sense" that they are getting "more".


    Anyone else noticing this trend ?


    Ben

    Isn't it always about making money? I don't use commercial profiles because I don't find them any better than the free ones on RE. You don't have to buy them if you don't want to.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

    Like 2 Thanks 1
    Quote from BayouTexan

    I don't use commercial profiles because I don't find them any better than the free ones on RE.

    I would love to buy commercial profiles if I could try them first. Its not the same when you hear someone else playing on YouTube.

    If I like something I don't have a problem paying for it I'm just not much of a gambler and don't want to take the chance on a bunch of profiles that I may never use, and just like you I have always gone after the free ones from RE and some sound absolutely amazing.


    I agree with the original post. I don't understand why profiling on different sweet spots instead of with the gain on full and the eq at 12:00 like its explained on the manual. I would much rather have a 1969 Fender deluxe reverb and find my own sweet spot.

    I guess we are still in the infant stages of liquid profiling.

    Quote from BayouTexan

    Isn't it always about making money? I don't use commercial profiles because I don't find them any better than the free ones on RE. You don't have to buy them if you don't want to.

    i own tons of commercial profiles,most of the free profiles on the RE are not good,i always buy from Guido,Bert,Britts,Soundside,Fig,Lenz

    Guitar: Fender Strat HSS<3 Schecter Custom Solo II

    Signal Chain: Kemper->AxeFX 3>Neural QC>Apollo Twin->M-Audio Monitors

    Computer:Mac Studio

    Thanks 1 Like 1
    Quote from BayouTexan

    Isn't it always about making money? I don't use commercial profiles because I don't find them any better than the free ones on RE. You don't have to buy them if you don't want to.


    Quote from Ni6htWalker

    i own tons of commercial profiles,most of the free profiles on the RE are not good,i always buy from Guido,Bert,Britts,Soundside,Fig,Lenz

    I’m on the fence on this one.


    There are loads of great profiles on the Rig Exchange and there are loads of great commercial profiles too. I like to try stuff just for the fun of it and some of the commercial packs are so cheap that I don’t grudge buying some just to play around for an hour or two. Ultimately I tend to return to the same few profiles but it’s still fun to experiment for a few pounds compared to spending thousands on trying actual amps.

    Some sellers, when doing packs have versions with multiple speaker cabs, and mics , different inputs, etc. As they release new stuff, all the profiles will be liquid in that there’s no reason not to put in all the info to make it ideal for liquid use. However there’s plenty of users that like the old workflow of having lots of sweet spot profiles to choose from and then only tweaking them as needed with the KpA eq and advance controls.

    Mic placement, mic type (cardioid, ribbon etc), multiple mics.


    Multiple channels, tube configurations, inputs.


    As an example a 4 hole Marshall is basically a ‘manual’ two channel amp with two inputs for each. Four possibilities, plus the ability to jumper them together and blend.


    Stuff like that can’t be accounted for in a LP.


    Also, not everyone knows how to set an amp up in its sweet spot. A little plug n play doesn’t hurt.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

    Like 3 Thanks 1
    Quote from Ni6htWalker

    i own tons of commercial profiles,most of the free profiles on the RE are not good,i always buy from Guido,Bert,Britts,Soundside,Fig,Lenz

    I'm a few years older than Michael(B), so I'm sure we listened to a lot of the same players and appreciate the same guitar tones. Along with his profiling expertise I trust his ears to create profiles that are pleasing to my ear...and he does. So 98% of the profiles I use are from his packs.


    RE profiles are so hit and miss. I don't want to spend hours finding great ones. Just take my $$....my time is valuable. ^^

    The key to everything is patience.
    You get the chicken by hatching the egg, not by smashing it.
    -- Arnold H. Glasow


    If it doesn't produce results, don't do it.

    -- Me

    Like 2 Thanks 1

    From an economic standpoint, there is less need for liquid profile packs to include as many profiles when one can suffice for the range of the tone and gain knobs, at a with a certain cab mic'd a certain way, and with certain non-modeled switches set one way, etc. However, there is still an incentive for them to dial some of their favorites just so, maybe with nothing more than some changes to the EQ and gain and perhaps paired with a post EQ or certain amps settings adjusted, such as def, clarity and so forth. Any that have a OD pedal baked in....

    Either way, with the flexibility of liquid profiles, perhaps 10 profiles can cover what 30 did before? Either way, the incentive to pay the same for a pack with technically a few number of profiles is no less. Over the years, the best comercial profilers have refined their technique, expanded the mic collections and expertise of what they like best for certain types of amps and cabs etc. As well as responded to customer feedback and what has sold and been liked afterwards.

    Since every amp is designed a little different, you should profile at several points. The EQ and gain stages will vary so you cant just magically do a 12 o'clock version and have it be perfect.


    The addition of some EQ presets will not magically make the Kemper a Helix(etc) where every device in the amp has been modeled. Liquid is designed to get you much closer to the real amp, not model that amp to perfection.

    Quote from RosboneMako

    Since every amp is designed a little different, you should profile at several points. The EQ and gain stages will vary so you cant just magically do a 12 o'clock version and have it be perfect.


    The addition of some EQ presets will not magically make the Kemper a Helix(etc) where every device in the amp has been modeled. Liquid is designed to get you much closer to the real amp, not model that amp to perfection.


    I see it a bit different ... be it Kemper, Axe or Helix ... none of them are "perfect" ... even though Tonex and NAM are "almost perfect" for a single static snapshot, move the generic dials after the Capture is done and then see how quickly the "almost perfect" Captures degrades.


    " ... Since every amp is designed a little different, you should profile at several points. The EQ and gain stages will vary so you cant just magically do a 12 o'clock version and have it be perfect ... " there is nothing at all wrong with doing your liquid profiles this way.


    The point though of LP's - as I see it .... and as CK states - is that if you do it as recommended, you will get very "authentic" amp response and adjustability whereby when you move the G/B/M/T etc.... it "authentically" reproduces how the Amp would respond ... no one is claiming its "1:1 perfect" ... but it is very "authentic" and to my ears bang-on amp-like and musical.


    Had the Stage now for 2 months or so after many years of numerous Fractal's [current gen] , GT1000, Tonex, Helix etc.... LP brought me back.


    I only have LP's loaded.


    I have a few LP's that were done as per the Kemper recommendations ie: Gain full, EQ 12.00 ..... and they are both a joy to use and "child's-play" to dial in just as if you were using a real amp ... not perfect but totally authentic .... one properly done LP will easily give you as many "sweet spots" as you could want from one profile/amp.


    Probably the even better part - no more pre and post eq'ing and filtering and boosting etc..... which is mandatory with every other unit and dont let anyone else tell you or claim otherwise - they are lying or kidding themselves ..... I just dial in the Amp, pick the drive of choice ... dial it in ... done. Then just add efx of choice.


    To me ears and playing it is genuinely next level stuff.


    Just my 2c.


    Ben

    Quote from benifin

    The point though of LP's - as I see it .... and as CK states - is that if you do it as recommended, you will get very "authentic" amp response and adjustability whereby when you move the G/B/M/T etc.... it "authentically" reproduces how the Amp would respond ... no one is claiming its "1:1 perfect" ... but it is very "authentic" and to my ears bang-on amp-like and musical.

    For clarity:

    What I was saying is pretend you have an old Fender. Maybe the EQ is after the preamp. LP's should work fine on this amp generically just set the EQ in the Kemper to Pre. Same for a Marshall or something that has EQ then gain. Set the EQ to post.


    Both of these scenarios will be great 90% of the time with LP's for most amps.


    The issue comes with situations like EQ -> Gain - > EQ -> Gain -> EQ. LP's are not going to be great with a single shot for this amp. You will probably need multiple profiles.


    I am just saying people need to be realistic about what the Kemper is trying to accomplish. If you want dead nuts copies of an amp get a Helix, Fractal, etc. If you want an amp that sounds amazing, is easy to use, and even better most of the time get the Kemper.

    Quote from BayouTexan

    Isn't it always about making money? I don't use commercial profiles because I don't find them any better than the free ones on RE. You don't have to buy them if you don't want to.

    Have to disagree with you. The best profiles I have are commercial profiles. Yes there are some good ones in RE but 99% of them are either bad or at best mediocre.

    Think for yourself, or others will think for you wihout thinking of you

    Henry David Thoreau

    Like 2
    Quote from RosboneMako

    The issue comes with situations like EQ -> Gain - > EQ -> Gain -> EQ. LP's are not going to be great with a single shot for this amp. You will probably need multiple profiles.

    But there aren’t any real world amps that have such a signal path.


    The closest is probably a Mesa Mark Series with a pre gain tones stack and a post gain GEQ. However, the GEQ is a totally different beast from a passive tone stack. Even the Mesa GEQ is an active eq which can cut and boost frequencies unlike a tone stack which can only ever cut. Therefore, a Mark style amp would need a modelled tone stack and a new GEQ with the same frequency centres and Q to get a “dead nuts copy”.

    Quote from GearJocke

    Yes there are some good ones in RE but 99% of them are either bad or at best mediocre.

    I'm not sure about the commercial profiles I have never bought one, but I think that now with liquid profile even the mediocre rigs are starting to sound pretty good all they need is a little tweaking.

    Its funny I use to hunt for profiles and now I hunt for amplifiers. Can't wait for the Morgan ac20 liquid profile to be released, I'm using a twin reverb tone stack with it right now and getting amazing results.

    Some rigs are not what you are looking for but with a little tweaking you can make it yours. I hardly look for rigs anymore I just tweak the ones I love the most for different songs, genres or originals.