Ahhh What's that? A New Kemper Model? Profiler Player

    Quote from Wheresthedug

    The profiles still make full use of all the deeper level functions but you can’t edit them on the Player. I suppose that is consistent with the concept of a “Player” rather than a “Profiler”. I can’t say this limitation really bothers me as I’m not much of a Tweaker even on my Powered Head but I can see how some users might find this limiting.

    tbh I feel like I got robbed after noticing that . if either the hx stomp or Tonex pedal had the ability to control the monitor volume independently this kpp would have went back the same day .


    Quote from Wheresthedug

    The profiles still make full use of all the deeper level functions but you can’t edit them on the Player. I suppose that is consistent with the concept of a “Player” rather than a “Profiler”. I can’t say this limitation really bothers me as I’m not much of a Tweaker even on my Powered Head but I can see how some users might find this limiting.

    If i understand it well, the matter is that if you take a profile with modified parameters as Clarity, Tube Bias, etc...

    There's an incidence on the sound but you will not be able to return to the original state even with PC rig manager :/ :?: :!:

    Quote from Steve5478

    If i understand it well, the matter is that if you take a profile with modified parameters as Clarity, Tube Bias, etc...

    There's an incidence on the sound but you will not be able to return to the original state even with PC rig manager :/ :?: :!:

    I'm not sure I understand. You can only change what you can change. Therefore, if you edit the available parameters RM should just update those as all the others remain in their default positions. I assume the rig alterations are backwards compatible.

    Quote from Steve5478

    If i understand it well, the matter is that if you take a profile with modified parameters as Clarity, Tube Bias, etc...

    There's an incidence on the sound but you will not be able to return to the original state even with PC rig manager :/ :?: :!:

    nope unless you have your other device , make the changes there then reexport it for the Kemper Player

    Quote from OneEng1

    I guess what I am saying is that JCW308 is likely not an anomaly in his expectations.

    Mhhh... I think this is not the point tho. Having expectations is one thing, as well as being frustrated when you discover specs don't fit your needs. But blaming Kemper because you did not even bother reading the specs or, even worse, blabbering about "jokes" is a totally different thing. As if Kemper team did not lost their sleep for months over trying and finding the best compromises, design and price point for the new unit (were hundreds of thousands Euro are invested). As any other small manufacturer, I mean... :)

    Quote from OneEng1

    It is possible that even with its limitations, that the Kemper Player is still the best KPA backup.

    Mhhh... This is another tricky point IMO. Chances are the Player was never meant as a backup, except for those who only use 2-4 fx per rig and have very simple requirements in terms of versatility (I've read of many who were happy about the Player just because their needs were totally covered, and with the legendary Kemper tone).
    Another very typical application would be - from what I've been reading around - adding the Player to a stomp pedalboard (there are many impressive examples already).
    So basically it all boils down IMO to expectations and evaluations. Silly to become aggressive because you chose the wrong unit for your needs, no?
    :)

    Quote from KeysAndGuitars

    It’s understandable that existing Kemper owners are frustrated over the lack of direct rig compatibility.

    Sure... but see above :)

    Quote from KeysAndGuitars

    I hope Kemper will fix this by adding the missing FX, Morph and the like.

    Actually, I find the idea of upgrading for a price w/o having to sell your unit in order to buy something more performing to be great.

    Again, it all boils down to expectations, and evaluations. IME, never buy something for what it's supposed to be doing in the future: buy only if the unit as is satisfies your needs :)

    Quote from tsachou

    I just realized the NOT Even the AMP profile of the KPP have the same parameters from the the STAGE ! I am shocked I didn't read that anywhere !!

    Well, it's in the manual, like everything else.

    Still chasing a worthy one :/

    Like 4
    Quote from tsachou

    tbh I feel like I got robbed after noticing that . if either the hx stomp or Tonex pedal had the ability to control the monitor volume independently this kpp would have went back the same day .


    mistaking the cheaper kemper for a full-fledged unit is a move many have done already. i read the manual the night they released it, twice, decided to get one for a slightly reduced FX capability but still 80% (the Pareto rule) of my sound for fly-in shows, now, i am delving into the serious midi possibilities and things look bright, especially with the prospect of paid software upgrades. nevertheless, the player is a mighty tool, and it can still sound amazing, provided you don't need the full capabilities of the kpa platform. different tools for different jobs, no trick involved.


    had no less than 4 AXEFXs, one of the first KPAs sold by thomann (sent it back based on lag-related issues,) currently entering my 10th year of playing KPA on tour, owning 3 KPAs, 2 players and 2 remotes. fucking flawless. just sent a hx stomp xl back to muziker because of un-usability caused by lag between patches. and no, snapshots don't cut it for me :) and no, the tonex can't rival the player, unless you carry a rather large pedalboard. which is a no-go on fly-ins. been there, done that :D

    Yes, I do believe that the KPA cured my GAS.

    Edited once, last by crivat ().

    Like 5

    For what it's worth, I did read the manual and other documentation before purchasing the Player. I thought it was the pre-release version, not the finished "that's all you're going to get" version that I was reading (and ultimately receiving). Will be returning my Player and going with an FM3 Turbo instead.

    Quote from OneEng1

    JCW308 may be going overboard in his verbal lashing of Kemper as a company, but I do believe that the customer base in general may have a significant number of people who expect that a Kemper Player will essentially be a KPA with some limitations.

    In all fairness, they did say you could use your existing rigs. We now know that was a half-truth at best.

    Quote from JCW308

    In all fairness, they did say you could use your existing rigs. We now know that was a half-truth at best.

    I think Kemper said you will be able to use existing profiles, not rigs. Many people confuse the two. Many people bought Player based on expectations and now face hard truth and disappointment. Company could do a bit better job at marketing here - one 5 minute video describing differences between Player and full-KPA would probably save a lot bad blood here, and could prevent many pre-mature purchases.

    Quote from DonPetersen

    like this one? :)

    exactly ;) but it should be placed directly on the Player product page, near the top, so it is very hard to miss - and it should be made available on day one (not 3 weeks after the release - according to youtube's "published" date). Another good video would be: when to choose Player vs. Stage / Toaster.

    Quote from Wheresthedug

    I'm not sure I understand. You can only change what you can change. Therefore, if you edit the available parameters RM should just update those as all the others remain in their default positions. I assume the rig alterations are backwards compatible.

    I wanted to talk about a new kemper's player owner. It means, he catches a rig on rig exchange and put it in his Player but he can't set those absent parameters anyway!?

    With due respect, I think it would be a good idea for the mods to create a forum section dedicated solely to the Kemper Player. Quite frankly, I have no interest in this product as it's not for me. There seems to be a wide degree of discourse with this new product and many threads have been opened as a result. Perhaps a consolidation of these these threads can be created which would benefit all concerned. Just a thought...

    Quote from pippopluto

    Mhhh... I think this is not the point tho. Having expectations is one thing, as well as being frustrated when you discover specs don't fit your needs. But blaming Kemper because you did not even bother reading the specs or, even worse, blabbering about "jokes" is a totally different thing. As if Kemper team did not lost their sleep for months over trying and finding the best compromises, design and price point for the new unit (were hundreds of thousands Euro are invested). As any other small manufacturer, I mean... :)

    I agree that there is no excuse for having bad manners because your expectations were not met. Voicing your disappointment can be done while maintaining good demeanor.


    FWIW, I run groups of engineers that design hardware for a living. I suspect that the cost for development of the Kemper Player was likely 1 million or more (I have easily dumped 2-4Million in a hardware program involving hardware, firmware, apps, and integration with server resources). The Player isn't as big a program as some of these, but I would bet it is 1M plus. So your point is valid. They have to get a return on their investment.


    Quote from pippopluto

    Mhhh... This is another tricky point IMO. Chances are the Player was never meant as a backup, except for those who only use 2-4 fx per rig and have very simple requirements in terms of versatility (I've read of many who were happy about the Player just because their needs were totally covered, and with the legendary Kemper tone).
    Another very typical application would be - from what I've been reading around - adding the Player to a stomp pedalboard (there are many impressive examples already).
    So basically it all boils down IMO to expectations and evaluations. Silly to become aggressive because you chose the wrong unit for your needs, no?
    :)

    If it is true that the Player was never meant as a backup, then it was certainly a Product Management oversight as this was some pretty low hanging fruit in the market, but your point is well taken. It could well be that this was not a target market (even if we all wanted it to be).


    I would contend that most people who use a full sized KPA rarely use more than 2 pre and 2 post efx .... or that they could certainly make due with 2 pre and 2 post in a pinch. Certainly, no one would expect Kemper to create a 3 button KPA that was a full KPA with the limitation of it having only 3 buttons as no competitor does this either. If performances were able to be shared with the full KPA's, I think that the lack of efx slots could be worked around in nearly all situations except the most extreme rigs.


    As a player as a stomp box in a pedal board, you are looking at competition with the $400.00 Tone X pedal. In a pedal board, you are likely going to see dedicated delay, chorus, and reverb units. Personally, I personally don't understand these kinds of rigs at all. Very expensive, not that flexible, and lots of things that can go wrong in a gig (one of the reasons I bought a Kemper in the first place!). Not to mention the dreaded tap dance routine needed to switch from one sound to another! No thanks :).


    Again, I agree that there is no need to get aggressive about this subject.

    Quote from crivat

    had no less than 4 AXEFXs, one of the first KPAs sold by thomann (sent it back based on lag-related issues,) currently entering my 10th year of playing KPA on tour, owning 3 KPAs, 2 players and 2 remotes. fucking flawless. just sent a hx stomp xl back to muziker because of un-usability caused by lag between patches. and no, snapshots don't cut it for me

    I agree. Snap-shots in Helix (Quad Cortex does the same thing I believe .... for the same reason) are really just giving you one set of parameters for a rig and giving you 2 more parameter sets within that rig. You can't actually change the rig to another rig. When I want a clean, I usually don't use the same amp, routing and efx as I do for a drive, let alone a heavy rig.



    Quote from Steve5478

    I wanted to talk about a new kemper's player owner. It means, he catches a rig on rig exchange and put it in his Player but he can't set those absent parameters anyway!?

    The Kemper Player doesn't offer as many ways to customize a rig as the full KPA. There will be some people who had expected that the Player would have the same editing capabilities of a rig as the bigger brothers (the competition does). Not saying it is necessarily a deal killer, just that people might have this expectation based on other competing product lines.


    The fact remains that at $700.00 USD, the Kemper Player might still be the most effective small form factor all-in-one guitar processor that a gigging musician can buy (even without a screen)


    Even though it is an imperfect FULL KPA backup device, it is still BY FAR the most effective small format backup device / throw-and-go rig out there for a full KPA user.

    Quote from JCW308

    For what it's worth, I did read the manual and other documentation before purchasing the Player. I thought it was the pre-release version, not the finished "that's all you're going to get" version that I was reading (and ultimately receiving). Will be returning my Player and going with an FM3 Turbo instead.

    FM3 is much more expensive, C.Kemper said all features will be able in a paid version and is on the roadmap. Don't you think it could be a better/cheaper solution ?

    Quote from OneEng1

    The Kemper Player doesn't offer as many ways to customize a rig as the full KPA. There will be some people who had expected that the Player would have the same editing capabilities of a rig as the bigger brothers (the competition does). Not saying it is necessarily a deal killer, just that people might have this expectation based on other competing product lines.

    Player brings limitations, it's a smaller unit, it's logic. As i said, i'm disappointed cause hardware already brings a lot of limitations...

    I hesitate to buy one and i'm waiting to know the price tag for unlocking all the features....

    But on this specific point, i don't catch the reason why ?!

    Profiles are heart's machine. From my point of view, Amp/cab possibilities should be the same on every devices and Kemper can purpose paid versions to expand all other possibilities. I don't believe that new owners know what we are talking about when we say set the clarity parameter, i don't think pedal board owners will put 100€ or more to have 6-8 more buttons (some they don't know the incidence)....I don't imagine big units' owner complaining cause Players' ones have those possibilities.....


    This week-end, i had a gig and had a buzz with high gain + disto sounds. At rehearsal or at home that default was not so important.

    I came back and added a noise gate on all rigs that presents this annoying sound, i thought this was another reason that 2 stomps before an amp is really too little.....

    Quote from Steve5478

    I came back and added a noise gate on all rigs that presents this annoying sound, i thought this was another reason that 2 stomps before an amp is really too little.....

    Steve5478 have you tried the Noise Gate in the Input section?


    It seems to work well for me, albeit I haven’t tried it outside of my home studio. If it works for you, you’ll save one of the two precious pre-stack fix slots.


    Quote from Steve5478

    FM3 is much more expensive, C.Kemper said all features will be able in a paid version and is on the roadmap. Don't you think it could be a better/cheaper solution ?

    I looked at FM3. It is one heck of an amazing piece of kit. As a hardware pedal, all of the I/O and onboard controls come at the cost of a much larger and heavier pedal, which led me to take the FM3 out of the running when I last considered it. At that point, I thought the Quad Cortex would be better for me. Then Tonex came out, and it seemed like a great way to get capture tech in a small pedal with a reasonable price tag. It does work well (perhaps Tonex captures an amp even a bit more accurately than Kemper, but it’s a subtle difference), but it’s not anywhere near the overall “pro” quality of a Kemper Profiler.


    Fractal vs Kemper is a question of approach. Both will deliver excellent results, but in very different ways.


    When the Player came out, I knew it was right for me. Replacing my Tonex with KPP was a no-brainer, despite the limitations the current software revision presents.


    In the end, I can understand why a guitarist would choose an FM3, Quad Cortex, Tonex or the Player. I am very happy with my choice of the Player.

    Quote from Kellerblues

    He actually said it's been discussed internally, no guarantees that it will happen

    He answered this #138 of this thread :

    Quote from ckemper

    Thus we consider since quit a while to offer one or two software upgrade (with costs), that will boost the Players features towards the Head, Rack and Stage.

    It's quite positive. IMO, the questions now are : When and How much ?

    I think, for the moment, that's not his priority, he's in the machines on the production line

    Quote from KeysAndGuitars

    Steve5478 have you tried the Noise Gate in the Input section?


    It seems to work well for me, albeit I haven’t tried it outside of my home studio. If it works for you, you’ll save one of the two precious pre-stack fix slots.

    I tried it first but i had to push this parameter too high.

    That buzz was really present on stage, so i pushed the default at home to really get rid of it for the next gig. I have tried to reduce (a little) gain too, but it was not probant.

    Noise gate 2:1 at 3.5/4 was the good way to obtain that result.