PLAYER - what were they thinking?

    This player isn't for me - I have a Stage ..... but is it true (?) that Kemper have said that at some time in the future they will release updates which add more features etc.... but you will have to pay for them ?!?!


    This would be stunning to me ... and not in a good way.


    I'm not aware of any 2023 modeler that charges for new features, efx, amp etc...... Fractal, L6, Boss GT, current Kemper units etc.....


    I just cant see or believe that Kemper / Christoph would even consider going down this path ?


    Ben

    Eventide apply this type of model with the H9 pedal. You get the core pedal and FX but then buy additional algorithms as required. I’m not saying its good or bad just that there is a precedent for it already.

    I was quite surprised Ben, I was struggling to understand the crippling of the unit assuming it had the resources in DSP.


    I was actually starting to wonder if they were trying out a new chip.


    I’m not very verse with all the digital machines out there but TONEX charge decent coin for more profiles and you can bet Neural DSP will if they get their shit together.


    We will have to wait and see what they charge and how they structure it.


    At least in having the stage you know what’s worth paying for.

    New talent management advice to Laura Cox -


    “Laura want to break the internet? let’s shoot another video of you covering the Nightrain solo in the blue singlet, but this time we’ll crank up the air conditioning”.

    Please mentally insert this post after every other post in this thread:


    "But it doesn't have x, y, or z function?"


    Buy the stage, toaster or rack, these functions are on all of these products and will resolve all of your concerns. This new product isn't for you.


    If you can appreciate the value and usefulness of this product despite the omitted features then maybe this product is for you.


    Bearing in mind, if you're posting in this section of the forum, you would have to already own one of these products, so there's really no concern at all, just a bit of whining that Kemper didn't release a full featured product for less than half the price of their existing full featured products.


    This product is primarily intended for people that aren't capable of posting in this section of the forum, new users.


    We'd all have to admit though, if you didn't already own a Kemper and couldn't afford/justify a full Kemper, this is a banger of a product in terms of what it can do.


    On the otherside of the coin, if you want a small, portable version of your existing Kemper to gig with, you're probably not tweaking much as you've probably had your favourite profiles/rigs sorted for years anyway. Just pay the extra for the morph function when it becomes available and you're set.


    You've probably already worked out this product isn't capable of replacing your existing Kemper. That's not its purpose

    Quote from Wheresthedug

    OneEng1 once again, I agree with most of your reasoning. It would be preferable to have the full range of FX and Morphing. The decision to dump the screen was a masterstroke in my opinion. Having the small form factor with all the space being used for physical controls makes the unit incredibly easy to use as a basic amp. I have now spent a several hours on the player and the interface is super easy and intuitive.

    I certainly can't argue with someone that is actually using one ;).


    I guess my thought about a "player" was "in for a penny, in for a pound" when it came to the physical controls. If you need the app for most things, then why not use it for all things (other than live rig changes and efx on/off in a live situation. These of course require physical foot switches).


    I do understand that as I just play live, my viewpoint is only representative of those that have the same use model as I do. For me, the color LCD and small form factor are all just features that make playing live easy. Since I never edit when I play live, I have no issue doing all my editing through a tablet, PC, or Phone.


    In a live situation, the device is going to be on the floor. I don't want to bend over to do anything live, so the physical buttons (other than the foot switches) are useless to me anyway.


    I used to tweak my KPA Rack with the front controls .... but not since rig manager got serious and included an editor. Now, I do ALL my tweaking and performance setup through the PC. When it comes to the live performance, my only interface is the Kemper FC..... which has no knobs on it at all.


    In fact, the ONLY thing I have ever edited live was changing the XLR output from stereo to mono when using a board that didn't have room for 2 inputs for the guitar. (As an aside, the only reason I like stereo live is for the IEM experience where I enjoy hearing the beauty of the KPA stereo efx image while performing :) ).


    Now, as a table top processor, perhaps the need for physical knobs is greater (I do tend to utilize the EQ knobs and reverb/delay controls on the rack for quick tweaks vs the rig manager editor controls ..... just not live).


    My main contention is that my personal preference would have been to forego all the knobs and spend the $ and physical real estate on a decent color LCD instead.


    As for the pay-for-premium plug-in's model? I would actually be OK with this .... especially if they lowered the base price. Then I could pay ONLY for the things that are most important to me. Natural reverb, and some of the fancier delays. I don't use morph (although I may some day as I can see how cool this feature can be) or MOST of the efx that are missing on the Play.


    Almost all of the newer digital mixers are moving to this model. They charge extra for their premium plug-in algorithms.


    I think that most of us would accept such a model ESPECIALLY if it gave us a continuously improving set of features and functions that could be paid for to update our KPA with for the next 20 years. This would also give Kemper new revenue to support the work needed to develop these features. I promise you guys, firmware developers, validation and release management are NOT cheap.


    As for my continuous rants about the lack of a color LCD, it is what it is. My guess is that it is still best in class in many respects.

    Quote from OneEng1

    As for the pay-for-premium plug-in's model? I would actually be OK with this .... especially if they lowered the base price. Then I could pay ONLY for the things that are most important to me. Natural reverb, and some of the fancier delays. I don't use morph (although I may some day as I can see how cool this feature can be) or MOST of the efx that are missing on the Play.


    Almost all of the newer digital mixers are moving to this model. They charge extra for their premium plug-in algorithms.


    I think that most of us would accept such a model ESPECIALLY if it gave us a continuously improving set of features and functions that could be paid for to update our KPA with for the next 20 years. This would also give Kemper new revenue to support the work needed to develop these features. I promise you guys, firmware developers, validation and release management are NOT cheap.

    Have they hinted at such a thing? My guess is that if that this Player is physically capable of providing the advanced effects, they have every incentive to do so for free. Sure some guitarists would be willing to shell out dough for that, but the long term PR when other direct all in one competitors don’t do this might offset any short term revenue. Especially for a company with a hard earned reputation for a decade of free updates.

    The lack of these advanced effects is giving many potential customers pause. This includes Stage owners that love kempers advanced effects and would be willing to shell out money for a Player if they didn’t have to lose their favorite effects. If the advanced effects could be implemented, they stand to gain more customers, including many existing customers of the head/rack/stage who have otherwise been sitting back and getting free updates for years.


    The idea that such advancements of the player would make their big brothers less of a value is a stretch. Having 4 more effects slots and a 14 dedicated foot switches instead of 3, an effects loops, and a screen is no small difference in functionality. This is true even if some would view the Player as the best value.

    Many guitarists that wants a no compromise premium KpA still have an incentive to buy a Stage or head/rack with remote, even if he agrees that the Player would be the best value. (The line 6 stomp XL is the best value for line 6, but that doesn’t antiquate the Helix) in fact I suspect that many new Kemper users whose first Kemper purchase is this new player will eventually what to upgrade to a Stage when they get a taste of kempers general workflow.

    A big blocker will / should be that the Player Amp Block does *not* include any of the deep editing parameters other than Definition.


    To me, that's just "neutering" for the sake of "neutering".


    Don't forget also that this unit with all its [deliberate] de-engineering and [deliberate] feature omissions and neutering, is still almost %50 the cost of a stage.


    and ....... add a decent Midi FSW .. ie: Morningstar MC6 Mk II ..... and then pay for some software and hardware upgrades down the track .... and well.... its just not going to stack up in terms of $$ ... i.m.h.o. ... and you'll still only have 2 x Pre [Limited] EFX blocks and 2 x Post [Limited] EFX Blocks.


    and ..... you cant load Toaster / Rack / Stage Pre-sets if they use more than 4 Blocks !!!


    and .... you're going to need a hefty very well isolated Pedal board P/S to run this and your other pedals ie:- just the Palyer is 9 - 12v @ 240w ... that puts it somewhere between 1A <-> 2A needed just for this pedal


    Ben

    Edited 2 times, last by benifin ().

    Sad 1

    Think about what you get for 700$/€.


    I am happy that when the "next spontaneous call" for a jam arrives I will be able to just grab a guitar and this Player and there I go..swuuush..out of the door..


    I guess in the end it is really all about the size and the time you save for certain situations..and these situations are not "doing pro-/semipro things..".


    Most likely all the situations I would like to have the player are about "having fun with my homies" somewhere with a FOH or an old FRFR waiting..


    Why would I need tons of fx and more pedals for morphing for this; Highly unlikely.


    Would I use the player for work in the studio or a bigger gig; No. This is why I have the rack and a extra laptop(for the studio) and the head/remote/3 EPs for "serious gigs".


    Choose your weapons wisely.


    And I am absolutely willing to pay 700€ to get this player just for having fun with my beloved rigs I use for years now. Even with half of the fx I never use.


    Peace

    As Frank Zappa said: shut up and play yer guitar.


    There are two kind of ppl. Those who invent something and those who come after and whine.

    Think for yourself, or others will think for you wihout thinking of you

    Henry David Thoreau

    Like 2

    I ordered mine, now the hard part…the waiting…


    I’m looking forward to a nice pedalboard setup, this will be a nice compliment with my Rack, I might even use it with my Rack.

    Do amps come in stereo? people are confusing this product as a replacement or little brother to the rest of the line. See it as a new product or new solution. I didnt think I wanted one but the more I think about running my strymon bluesky after this Im keen to make a travel board with it. Its just a new solution, not a replacing one. A screen would of made this bigger, an then closer to the stage. CK knows what hes doing.

    Quote from djemass

    Does the Player have all the advanced amp parameters like bias and so on ?

    No. Availability of parameters stops after "Definition". I believe everything gets translated from the profiles transferred from the bigger brothers though.

    Quote from Wheresthedug

    It's great Morph. Really intuitive and perfect for gigs or rehearsals where you only need a limited range of sounds.

    Thinking hard about getting down to just a gig bag and leave the toaster home for recording. I think I can get all the sounds I need for my regular gigs from it. Did you get your’s direct?

    A brace of Suhrs, a Charvel, a toaster, an Apollo twin, a Mac, and a DXR10

    Quote from Ingolf

    No. Availability of parameters stops after "Definition". I believe everything gets translated from the profiles transferred from the bigger brothers though.


    Quote from Morph

    Thinking hard about getting down to just a gig bag and leave the toaster home for recording. I think I can get all the sounds I need for my regular gigs from it. Did you get your’s direct?


    Very sadly ..... I suspect that will be a "paid feature" update some time down the road :(


    Don't know yet if the Cab block even has Pure Cab and Character enabled ---- or does it even have High Shfit / Low Shift or Hi / Lo EQ enabled (?)


    Ben

    My question is - are the missing amp or cab parameters ignored when importing a rig from a Head/Rack/Stage - or are custom settings retained, but not editable.


    If the custom settings are retained, then I don’t care if the Player allows edits.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

    Like 1
    Quote from benifin

    Very sadly ..... I suspect that will be a "paid feature" update some time down the road :(


    Don't know yet if the Cab block even has Pure Cab and Character enabled ---- or does it even have High Shfit / Low Shift or Hi / Lo EQ enabled (?)


    Ben

    These parameters are in the Player.

    Quote from Ruefus

    My question is - are the missing amp or cab parameters ignored when importing a rig from a Head/Rack/Stage - or are custom settings retained, but not editable.


    If the custom settings are retained, then I don’t care if the Player allows edits.

    I believe the settings are retained. I work with the amp compressor quite a bit. My imported rigs from the Stage sound the same in the Player.